Interview about universities and China –
“There is a risk of misuse for propaganda purposes”
After the scandal over the Swiss university: Should scientists even work with the People’s Republic? China expert Ralph Weber classifies.
Published: October 30, 2024, 1:39 p.m<img alt="Campus of the design school in Shenzhen, where the ZHDK has terminated a collaboration.” class=”ResponsiveImage_root__ZDz10 responsive-image” height=”800″ width=”1200″ src=”https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=1200,800,1000,1000,0,0&sum=-VDtid7t81w” srcset=”https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=200,133,1000,1000,0,0&sum=0QIzm6iD5OY 200w, https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=450,300,1000,1000,0,0&sum=U8X3wdNWjaE 450w, https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=800,533,1000,1000,0,0&sum=QK-U1aEMEAs 800w, https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=1200,800,1000,1000,0,0&sum=-VDtid7t81w 1200w, https://cdn.unitycms.io/images/4XD1eKw7KN694vWEiE4pHx.png?op=ocroped&val=1600,1067,1000,1000,0,0&sum=pcdUqeu9xYI 1600w” sizes=”100vw” draggable=”false” loading=”eager” style=”–responsive-image-focus-position:50% 50%;background-color:#657267″/>
Campus of the design school in Shenzhen, where the ZHDK has terminated a collaboration.
Photo: ZHDK
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The Zurich University of the Arts (ZHDK) has terminated its collaboration with a design university in southern China that it co-founded. The Chinese side is angry about the Swiss withdrawal and is considering sanctions. Ralph Weber, professor at the European Institute at the University of Basel, is an expert on economic and political relations with China. The 50-year-old was also on the ethics committee that advised the ZHDK on its collaboration with the university in Shenzhen. Here he assesses the case and general challenges in cooperation with the People’s Republic.
Mr Weber, the ZHDK’s exit is explained by a “lack of resources”. Could it also be that political concerns played a role?
It may well be that the resource expenditure was underestimated at the beginning. Such collaboration is complicated. On the European side, in addition to Zurich, Barcelona and Stuttgart were also involved. And the project was in the works for many years, and then the coronavirus pandemic hit, so the collaboration has only recently picked up steam.
If political reasons play a role: How do Chinese partners react to criticism of their system?
In most cases, the size and power relationships are such that such criticism is rarely made. But Chinese partners can usually handle it well. You can also refer to the official positions of the Chinese party-state, which has been making major propaganda efforts on human rights issues for some time. Or they simply smile away the criticism.
In the case of ZHDK, is the unilateral termination of the contract a loss of face for the Chinese side?
Of course this is annoying for the Chinese side. They certainly had their own goals with the cooperation. However, I don’t think this is about loss of face, but rather I could imagine that a not insignificant amount of financial investment was also made in the project.
China expert Ralph Weber from the University of Basel.
Photo: ZVG
Apparently the Swiss diplomas that should have been awarded at the school are very important to the Chinese side. Why actually?
The diplomas fulfill the immediate purpose of the partnership, so to speak. It is entirely possible that a Swiss institution also comes with a seal of quality or prestige.
The university in Shenzhen is an offshoot of a Chinese military academy. How problematic is that?
The ZHDK’s cooperation with the campus in Shenzhen is with the Harbin Institute of Technology (HIT), a well-known Chinese university that, as one of the “Seven Sons of National Defense”, is classified as extremely close to the military. More than three-quarters of all graduates recruited into Chinese state-owned defense companies come from these universities. The majority of these universities’ budgets go to defense research. In 2020, the USA decided that graduates from these universities would not be allowed to pursue further studies in the USA.
Now the ZHDK branch in Shenzhen is a design and architecture school. Can such collaboration also be problematic?
Individual aspects such as smart cities come to mind. They use digital technologies, for example, to make their development energy and resource efficient. However, this makes them a possible target for cyber attacks and, under certain circumstances, increases the control options of state actors. However, the ZHDK was aware of these aspects.
Did she do anything about it?
After public criticism, it set up an ethics committee in 2021, which then monitored the cooperation. I was a member of this commission and can testify that preparations were made there for all possible eventualities.
What would such an eventuality have been?
Case scenarios were played out as to what should be done if a joint publication was censored or if there were restrictions affecting teaching or freedom of expression. It was also about clarifying what kind of incidents the commission would recommend to the university leadership to protest or to break off the cooperation. These are not easy discussions in practice.
There was still agreement: the signing of the contract for the new school in July 2015, on the left at the table was the then ZHDK principal Thomas D. Meier.
Photo: ZHDK
Can you, as an academic actor in a liberal democracy, work with an authoritarian state – are freedom of action and freedom of expression guaranteed?
It depends very much on the specific scientific area in which the collaboration takes place. Depending on the situation, the risk of illegal knowledge transfer or misuse for propaganda purposes is at issue.
A specific example?
If cooperation leads to military areas or technologies that can be used to monitor and suppress the population, for example the Uyghurs and other minorities in Xinjiang, then there is a risk of violating goods control and embargo laws or being named in reputation-damaging legal cases and media reports to become.
For a long time, the motto of economic cooperation with China was “change through trade”. Did the ZHDK in Shenzhen also have this goal in mind?
The ZHDK leadership certainly found itself in a different situation 10 years ago. Back then, it was considered chic to enter into collaborations with institutions in China. Anyone who didn’t do that simply hadn’t realized where the future would go. The free trade agreement also came into force in 2014. The increasing authoritarian closure of China could soon no longer be ignored, especially in the scientific field. New data protection laws and counter-espionage laws have recently caused a lot of discussion and raised concerns.
ZHDK building in Zurich.
Photo: Jonathan Labusch
Are there further collaborations between Swiss and Chinese universities?
In Switzerland there are numerous existing collaborations in the educational sector, both institutionally and at the level of individual researchers.
To what extent do they have to have the books?
I think that some people have already gone over the books in recent years. The problems surrounding cooperation with China are well known at universities, research institutions and also in the federal government of Bern. But there are also some actors who steadfastly adhere to the view that these discussions are due to an anti-Chinese polemic. Or that politics and science would be unduly mixed. Often things get mixed up.
What does ethical cooperation with China look like?
Ethics obviously play an important role, but it is also about law: academic freedom in Switzerland is guaranteed in the constitution. In a liberal democracy, you also have to think carefully about the reasons for wanting to restrict this freedom. It is entirely understandable that universities and their researchers defend their autonomy, even when it comes to collaboration with China. I consider restrictions to be particularly appropriate in particularly sensitive areas. This can be done by the authorities or within the university.
ZHDK in Shenzhen
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