Rainer Furth has been Münster’s new chief of police since the beginning of February, taking over from Hajo Kuhlisch, who retired at the same time. Furth was previously police chief in Krefeld. He was not given much time to catch his breath and to arrive. The COVID-19 pandemic also has profound effects on everyday police work. In a telephone interview with ALLES MÜNSTER, he illustrates that Furth also has numerous other topics on the agenda.
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Mr. Furth, you were police chief in Krefeld from 2008 to 2020. Münster is anything but new for you?
That’s right, I came to Münster after graduating from high school and studied here. After completing my studies and legal clerkship, I started my work in Münster. So I have been at home in Münster for 40 years, so to speak.
At the time of Hubert Wimber, you were already one of the favorites when looking for a new police chief for Münster. Why didn’t it work then?
I asked myself that for a long time! [lacht]
Krefeld has the fastest deployment response time in NRW. Why is that and do you have the ambition to get that for Münster?
Deployment response time is a very interesting topic. Whenever people vote 110 because they are in some way in need or need help, they expect the police to be there as soon as possible. The response time depends on many things, for example where the guards are, where the vehicles are currently traveling in the city, what the traffic situation is and what the operational load looks like. So if you imagine someone calling on Saturday night when there is a lot going on in town and complaining that their neighbor is listening to such loud music, it will take a little longer for the police to come everywhere.
In other situations – we, as the police, speak of “perpetrators on the spot” – so if things have to go really quickly, if the burglar is in the house or the shoplifter is being held up, people naturally expect particularly quick help. It is similar with traffic accidents in which someone was injured. The response time in Krefeld was so good, among other things, because we also had a group of cyclists in the inner city area, i.e. where many crimes occur during the day. In some cases, the colleagues were on site at lightning speed. We are also considering what can be improved in Münster. One thing is clear: the police have to be there when they are needed.
By moving to Münster, you assume a Paragraph 4 authority. What does that mean?
Paragraph 4 can be found in the so-called Criminal Police Office Ordinance, which is a regulation that regulates responsibilities. Paragraph 4 means that we have extensive police opportunities in Münster. Major damage events, extortionate human robbery, hostage taking, in such cases you need a permanent staff in the police organization and other experts who can deal with such situations professionally. The killing spree in Münster two years ago was such a situation.
In Krefeld, there were significant successes in law enforcement at the turn of the year by comparing data between the police, customs, family coffers, tax investigators and local authorities. What did these successes look like and is this a model for Münster?
The State Criminal Police Office has developed and legally examined an instrument. If all positions participate, you can use it to detect child benefit and social benefit fraud. This works by comparing data from the child benefit fund with that of other authorities. There is a provision in the tax code that enables the transmission of data. It can be used, for example, to find children for whom child benefit is paid but who actually do not exist. This is often accompanied by other, exploitative things in the area of social security fraud.
One can imagine that there are houses in certain cities in which 100 people are registered. And if you take a look at who actually lives there, you may not find any of the people reported, but others. And then of course you ask yourself the question, if they have underage children, do they go to school? And if these children said at school that we are going back to Romania, Bulgaria or anywhere else, within the framework of European freedom of movement, they can unsubscribe, so far nobody has had reason to suspect that something might not go right here. But if you question whether the children for whom child benefit is paid here were really ever there, you may come to the conclusion that they do not live here but in another city under a different name.
One can imagine that considerable abuse is possible in the area of child benefit. Especially when you know that in the past, children only had to apply for child benefit once, and then, as a rule, it was only after 18 years that the parents were asked for the first time whether the child still existed. So you can imagine that if you cheat on a child benefit fraud with a small child, as a criminal you will have rest for the next ten to 15 years.
Especially in the area of clan crime, prostitution and burglary, you showed “clear edges” in Krefeld. These are vocabulary words that Münster is not the first to think of. Is that wrong?
There are areas of crime that you discover if you take special care of them. Prostitution in itself is not prohibited. The prostitute protection law specifically regulates the conditions under which women and men can pursue prostitution and if these legal provisions are complied with, this is not for the police or for the regulatory authority. However, if you take a closer look, many of the almost 18-year-old women who come from Eastern Europe and are here on the street may not be here voluntarily. Then you would have to imagine that a 14 or 15 year old woman in Romania thought that she absolutely had to go to Münster or Krefeld or to Duisburg to stand on the street and prostitute herself for 20 euros. I think that is rather unlikely and therefore I suspect that many of these people, who are the poorest of the poor here on the street at 18, could be victims of human trafficking.
There is a magnetic field for crime anyway when it comes to prostitution. If you look at the different fields of crime, you can guess that it is not just about tax evasion. According to their own statements, many women who pursue prostitution here have already lived through half of the penal code as victims.
Is clan crime an issue in Münster?
I would not rule out any form of crime. However, clan crime varies in the cities in North Rhine-Westphalia.
Crimes against elderly people, keyword “grandchildren trick”, were particularly condemned when you published the latest crime statistics. In fact, three million euros have been extorted in Münster in the past three years. Do you see any special need for action here? How do you want to avoid or reduce this in the future?
Perhaps I should first make it clear that this is not blackmail, but a particularly perfidious type of fraud. Take the grandchild’s example. Someone from a call center reports to an older lady or an older gentleman whose first names in the phone book sound like older people. The call center does not have to be in Germany. The caller is trained like an insurance seller and makes older people reveal secrets through their answers. These conversations often go like this: “Do you know Josephine who is calling here?” “Is that you?” “Yes, I am your grandchild” “Is that you, Klaus?” “Yes, I am Klaus”. And then the woman hangs on the fish hook and the caller does what he wants with her.
He often keeps them on the phone for a long time, pretending that there is a need, that someone is coming and needs money because of an illness or that there is some problem with the car. That is why it is up to the police to take action first by providing information and prevention. We do this here in Münster by ensuring that older ladies and gentlemen, who usually collect a few hundred euros a week or a month, notice the bank when they suddenly want to withdraw 20,000 euros from their savings account or that Want to open the locker. The people at the banks and savings banks should then become aware and remember that it could be the victim of a fraud. We are there for that too, the police don’t come when something has happened.
We don’t want to spoil the elderly, but we know how professional the fraudsters are. Many fall for it and I’m worried that we don’t know half of all cases because the old people are ashamed of not reporting what happened to them and not going to the police either.
So you don’t go wrong with the 110?
With the 110 you don’t go wrong! It is also a trick that someone pretends to be a police officer on the phone and the display even shows 110, which we would never do. Then someone says that the valuables are at risk and that a colleague will come over and bring them to safety. If you hang up, you should call 110 yourself and the real police officers will tell you that you shouldn’t do that and they will come over immediately. Then we also have a real police vehicle and come in uniform!
To specifically select the group of older people as victims in order to take advantage of dementia or loneliness in individual cases, in order to make large prey, I personally think that is extremely perfidious! That is why we are currently working on a brochure together with banks and savings banks, which should be made available to every citizen.
Every seventh offense takes place in the Central Station area in Münster. The number of offenses has decreased in recent years, but there seems to be a kind of hotspot there. Are you planning further measures here?
You have to differentiate and take a close look at the subject of the main train station in Münster. There has been a drug scene near the drug consumption room there for many years because it allows them to use drugs with clean cutlery. But there is always a high level of accompanying crime around the drug scene, much like I mentioned in prostitution. It is this that we shouldn’t care about. There have been complaints about the main train station for years and one cannot dismiss these complaints with reference to the fact that this is normal for a city like Münster. You don’t have to accept crime around the main train station.
The police are not only there to solve crimes, but also to prevent crimes in advance. That is why we will be there in the future, and not just on a short-term basis, but permanently, after evaluating the time of the crime and how the crime was committed, in order to prevent crime. It’s not just about selling drugs or buying drugs, it’s also about people being mugged, victims of robbery, insults, assault and other things.
In the meantime, we have evaluated when, where and what exactly happens, which is why we are now increasingly active there. In the first six weeks in which the measures were introduced, we had – and I now expressly say before Corona – no robbery in the area around the main station. We continue the targeted checks after the Corona contact block.
Are the police facing particular challenges in the wake of the corona pandemic?
I would first like to deal with the current situation: we now have a corona protection regulation that came into force at the end of last month. This contains clear regulations and, of course, with new powers for police and law enforcement agencies there is always a greater need for coordination. Think of the gathering of opponents of uranium transports last week, when we suddenly had 45 people at a gathering, even though the law currently prohibits it.
There are exceptions and while the police were previously the assembly authority, the Corona Protection Ordinance now regulates that the city decides on exceptions. Of course, all of this has to be practiced. In summary, I want to say that the cooperation with the city and the regulatory office works well. Above all, the Münsterers behave very well! When I drive through the city by car or bike, I don’t see any accumulations, even on Lake Aase people seem to be paying attention to it.
We have created conditions around the drug scene on Bremer Platz that compliance with the contact ban is also observed there. All people – I don’t think you have to emphasize this – deserve the same protection, even people who are active in the drug scene. That’s why I think it’s absolutely right to be there. Whatever comes up with Corona, we are prepared for all scenarios. I wish everyone who is not yet ill that they may stay healthy and that those who have been caught will recover soon!
Finally, a question that must be asked in Münster: Do you look at the Münster crime scene and Wilsberg? Is this what police work looks like?
The Münster crime scene is a must! You have to see it, that’s great entertainment. This has nothing to do with the work of the criminal police. This also applies to Wilsberg.
Thank you very much for this interview!
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