Even in this season, when Bayern are sufficiently stumbled, nobody wants to knock Bayern off the throne …
And in Dortmund they seem to be slowly satisfied with the situation of being the eternal number 2
–
Vice mouth –
Your use of the term “Vizemund” has aroused my curiosity about which team in Germany is the one that has won the most second places. But first I would like to start with the list of all German champions since 1903 (without winning teams in the former GDR).
01 FC Bayern Munich: 1932/1969/1972/1973/1974/1980/1981/1985/1986/1987/1989/1990/1994/1997/1999/2000/2001
/ 2003/2005/2006/2008/2010/2013/2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019 = 29x
02. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1920/1921/1924/1925/1927/1936/1948/1961/1968 = 9x
03. FC Schalke 04: 1934/1935/1937/1939/1940/1942/1958 = 8x
03.Borussia Dortmund: 1956/1957/1963/1995/1996/2002/2011/2012 = 8x
05. Hamburger SV: 1923/1928/1960/1979/1982/1983 = 6x
06. VfB Stuttgart: 1950/1952/1984/1992/2007 = 5x
07.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1970/1971/1975/1976/1977 = 5x
08. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 1951/1953/1991/1998 = 4x
09 SV Werder Bremen: 1965/1988/1993/2004 = 4x
10. VfB Leipzig: 1903/1906/1913 = 3x
10. SpVgg Fürth: 1914/1926/1929 = 3x
10. 1. FC Cologne: 1962/1964/1978 = 3x
13. Berlin FuFC Viktoria: 1889: 1908/1911 = 2x
13. Hertha BSC: 1930/1931 = 2x
13. Dresdner SC: 1943/1944 = 2x
13. Hanover 96: 1938/1954 = 2x
17th Berlin TuFC Union 1892: 1905 = 1x
17th Freiburg FC: 1907 = 1x
17. FC Phoenix Karlsruhe: 1909 = 1x
17th Karlsruhe FV: 1910 = 1x
17th Holstein Kiel: 1912 = 1x
17th Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1933 = 1x
17. SK Rapid Vienna: 1941 = 1x
17. VfR Mannheim: 1949 = 1x
17. Hanover 96: 1854 = 1x
17.Red and white food: 1955 = 1x
17. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1959 = 1x
17. TSV 1860 Munich: 1966 = 1x
17. Eintracht Braunschweig: 1967 = 1x
17th VfL Wolfsburg: 2009 = 1x
01.FC Schalke 04: 1933/1938/1941/1972/1977/2001/2005/2007/2010/2018 = 10x
01 FC Bayern Munich: 1970/1971/1988/1991/1993/1996/1998/2004/2009/2012 = 10x
03. Hamburger SV: 1922/1924/1957/1958/1976/1980/1981/1984/1987 = 9x
04.Borussia Dortmund: 1949/1961/1966/1992/2013/2014/2016/2019 = 8x
05. 1. FC Cologne: 1960/1963/1965/1973/1982/1989/1990 = 7x
05.SV Werder Bremen: 1968/1983/1985/1986/1995/2006/2008 = 7x
07 Hertha BSC: 1926/1927/1928/1929/1975 = 5x
07.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1997/1999/2000/2002/2011 = 5x
09. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1922/1934/1937/1962 / = 4x
09. VfB Stuttgart: 1935/1953/1979/2003 = 4x
09. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 1948/1954/1955/1994 = 4x
11. VfB Leipzig: 1904/1911/1914 = 3x
13. Karlsruhe FV: 1905/1912 = 2x
13. Berlin FuFC Viktoria 1889: 1907/1909 = 2x
13. Holstein Kiel: 1910/1913 = 2x
13. TSV 1860 Munich: 1931/1967 = 2x
13. 1. FC Saarbrücken: 1943/1952 = 2x
13. Kickers Offenbach: 1950/1959 = 2x
13. Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1974/1978 = 2x
20. German FC Prague: 1903 = 1x
20. Berlin TuFC Britannia 1892: 1904 = 1x
20. 1. FC Pforzheim: 1906 = 1x
20. SV Stuttgarter Kickers: 1908 = 1x
20. SpVgg Fürth: 1920 = 1x
20. Berliner FC Vorwärts 1890: 1921 = 1x
20. SC Union Oberschönewalde: 1923 = 1x
20.FSV Frankfurt: 1925 = 1x
20. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1932 = 1x
20. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1936 = 1x
20. SK Admira Vienna: 1939 = 1x
20. Dresdner SC: 1940 = 1x
20. First Vienna FC: 1942 = 1x
20th LSV Hamburg: 1944 = 1x
20. SC Preussen Münster: 1951 = 1x
20. MSV Duisburg: 1964 = 1x
20. Alemannia Aachen: 1969 = 1x
20. VfL Wolfsburg: 2015 = 1x
20. RB Leipzig: 2017 = 1x
Most of the runners-up have won with FC Schalke 04 and Bayern Munich with 10 each. It is followed by HSV with 9 and Dortmund with 8. It is quite possible that BVB will increase the number of second places to 9 this season. Nevertheless, that’s not enough for the top position in the “Best of the Rest” rating.
But even if Borussia should actually take the lead in this ranking over the next few years – which is certainly possible given the brutal dominance of Bavaria – I don’t think the term “vice mouth” is appropriate. After all, BVB has won eight championships in its long history, demonstrating that it is able to become German champions. Just like e.g. Schalke 04 – even if it was a long time ago for the blue. I will leave out the bitter “mastery of hearts”.
However, it is much more interesting to look at the teams that were runner-up, but have NEVER been German champions to date:
01.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1997/1999/2000/2002/2011 = 5x
02. 1. FC Saarbrücken: 1943/1952 = 2x
02. Kickers Offenbach: 1950/1959 = 2x
04. German FC Prague: 1903 = 1x
04. Berlin TuFC Britannia 1892: 1904 = 1x
04. 1. FC Pforzheim: 1906 = 1x
04. SV Stuttgarter Kickers: 1908 = 1x
04. Berlin FC Forward 1890: 1921 = 1x
04.SC Union Oberschönewalde: 1923 = 1x
04. FSV Frankfurt: 1925 = 1x
04. SK Admira Vienna: 1939 = 1x
04. First Vienna FC: 1942 = 1x
04. LSV Hamburg: 1944 = 1x
04 SC Preussen Munster: 1951 = 1x
04. MSV Duisburg: 1964 = 1x
04. Alemannia Aachen: 1969 = 1x
04. RB Leipzig: 2017 = 1x
And if you look at this list, it quickly becomes clear why the term “vice kusen” also fits the Werkself statistically best. It was created around the year 2000 and has even been registered as a protected trademark with the Patent Office since 2010:
Vice Kusen. I personally find it a shame that Bayer never achieved a title, especially in the golden era around the turn of the millennium. But as strong as Bayern present themselves in the league, especially in the current decade, I see little chance in the foreseeable future that Bayer 04 will be able to enter the list of German champions.
There have been a total of 30 different German champions in Germany since 1903. And this season the record champions Bayern Munich will not only celebrate their eighth title win in a row but also their 30th championship. This also shows how much German football is dominated by Bayern. However, this was not always the case. Before the Bundesliga was founded, Bayern were not among the top clubs with a championship. One was not one of the founding members of the Bundesliga. The triumphal march of the Reds only began with the promotion to the top German division in 1965. And while I’m at it, I would like to take a look at the individual decades since the Bundesliga was launched to determine which teams have been most successful in the respective decades:
1960 – 1969:
01. 1. FC Köln: 2x champion (1962/1964) and 3x vice champion (1960/1963/1965)
02. 1. FC Nürnberg: 2x champions (1961/1968) and 1x runner-up (1962)
03.Borussia Dortmund: 1x master (1963) and 2x runner-up (1961/1966)
04.SV Werder Bremen: 1x master (1965) and 1x vice champion (1968)
04. TSV 1860 Munich: 1x master (1966) and 1x vice champion (1967)
06. Hamburger SV: 1 x master (1960)
06. Eintracht Braunschweig: 1x master (1967)
06. FC Bayern Munich: 1 x champion (1969)
09. MSV Duisburg: 1x runner-up (1964)
09. Alemannia Aachen: 1x runner-up (1969)
1970 – 1979:
01.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 5x masters (1970/1971/1975/1976/1977) and 2x runner-up (1974/1978)
02. FC Bayern Munich: 3x champions (1972/1973/1974) and 2x runner-up (1970/1971)
03. 1. FC Köln: 1x champion (1978) and 1x runner-up (1973)
03. Hamburger SV: 1x master (1979) and 1x runner-up (1976)
05.FC Schalke 04: 2x runner-up (1972/1977)
05. Hertha BSC: 1x vice champion (1975)
05.VfB Stuttgart: 1x runner-up (1979)
1980 – 1989:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 6x champions (1980/1981/1985/1986/1987/1989) and 1x runner-up (1988)
02. Hamburger SV: 2x champion (1982/1983) and 4x vice champion (1980/1981/1984/1987)
03.SV Werder Bremen: 1x champion (1988) and 3x runner-up (1983/1985/1986)
04. VfB Stuttgart: 1x master (1984)
05. 1. FC Cologne: 1x runner-up (1982)
1990 – 1999:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 4x champions (1990/1994/1995/1997/1999) and 4x runner-up (1991/1993/1996/1998)
02. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 2x champion (1991/1998) and 1x runner-up (1994)
02.Borussia Dortmund: 2x master (1995/1996) and 1x runner-up (1992)
04.SV Werder Bremen: 1x master (1993) and 1x vice champion (1995)
05.VfB Stuttgart: 1x master (1992)
06. Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 2x runner-up (1997/1999)
07. 1. FC Cologne: 1x runner-up (1990)
2000 – 2009:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 6x champions (2000/2001/2003/2005/2006/2008) and 2x vice champions (2004/2009)
02. SV Werder Bremen: 1x master (2004) and 2x vice champion (2006/2008)
03. VfB Stuttgart: 1x master (2007) and 1x vice champion (2003)
04.Borussia Dortmund: 1x master (2002)
04. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x champion (2009)
06. FC Schalke 04: 3x runner-up (2001/2005/2007)
07.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 2x runner-up (2000/2002)
2010 – 2019:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 8x champions (2010/2013/2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019) and 1x runner-up (2012)
02.Borussia Dortmund: 2x champions (2011/2012) and 4x runners-up (2013/2014/2015/2019)
03.FC Schalke 04: 2x runner-up (2010/2018)
04.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x runner-up (2011)
04. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x runner-up (2015)
04. RB Leipzig: 1x runner-up (2017)
But you should also take into account the performance in the DFB Cup:
1960 – 1969:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 3x cup winner (1966/1967/1969)
02. Hamburger SV: 1x cup winner (1963) and 1x vice cup winner
02. Borussia Dortmund: 1x cup winner (1965) and 1x vice cup winner
04.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x cup winner (1960)
04.SV Werder Bremen: 1x cup winner (1961)
04. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1x cup winner (1962)
04. TSV 1860 Munich: 1x cup winner (1964)
04. 1. FC Köln: 1x cup winner (1968)
09. Karlsruhe SC: 1x vice cup winner (1960)
09. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 1x vice cup winner (1961)
09. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x vice cup winner (1962)
09. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x vice cup winner (1964)
09. Alemannia Aachen: 1x vice cup winner (1965)
09 MSV Duisburg: 1x vice cup winner (1966)
09. VfL Bochum: 1x vice cup winner (1968)
09. FC Schalke 04: 1x vice cup winner (1969)
1970 – 1979:
01. 1. FC Köln: 2x cup winner (1977/1978) and 3x vice cup winner (1970/1971/1973)
02. Eintracht Frankfurt: 2x cup winner (1974/1975)
03. Hamburger SV: 1x cup winner (1976) and 1x vice cup winner (1974)
03. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x cup winner (1979) and 1x vice cup winner (1978)
05. Kickers Offenbach: 1x cup winner (1970)
05.FC Bayern Munich: 1x cup winner (1971)
05.FC Schalke 04: 1x cup winner (1972)
05.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x cup winner (1973)
09. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 2x vice cup winner (1972/1976)
09th Hertha BSC: 2x vice cup winner (1977/1979)
09. MSV Duisburg: 1x vice cup winner (1975)
1980 – 1989:
01 Bayern Munich: 3 cup winners (1982/1984/1986) and 1 x vice cup winner
02. Eintracht Frankfurt: 2x cup winner (1981/1988)
03. 1. FC Köln: 1x cup winner (1983) and 1 x vice cup winner
04. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x cup winner (1980)
04.Bayer 05 Uerdingen: 1x cup winner (1985)
04. Hamburger SV: 1x cup winner (1987)
04.Borussia Dortmund: 1x cup winner (1989)
08 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 1x vice cup winner (1981)
08. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1x vice cup winner (1982)
08. SC Fortuna Cologne: 1x vice cup winner (1983)
08.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x vice cup winner (1984)
08. VfB Stuttgart: 1x vice cup winner (1986)
08. SV Stuttgarter Kickers: 1x vice cup winner (1987)
08. VfL Bochum: 1x vice cup winner (1988)
08. SV Werder Bremen: 1x vice cup winner (1989)
1990 – 1999:
01.SV Werder Bremen: 3x cup winner (1991/1994/1999) + 1x vice cup winner (1990)
02. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 2x cup winner (1990/1996)
03.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x cup winner (1995) and 1x vice cup winner (1992)
03.Bavaria Munich: 1x cup winner (1998) and 1x vice cup winner (1999)
05. Hannover 96: 1x cup winner (1992)
05.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x cup winner (1993)
05. VfB Stuttgart: 1x cup winner (1997)
08. 1. FC Cologne: 1x vice cup winner (1991)
08. Hertha BSC amateurs: 1x vice cup winner (1993)
08. Rot-Weiß Essen: 1x vice cup winner (1994)
08. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x vice cup winner (1995)
08. Karlsruhe SC: 1x vice cup winner (1996)
08. Energie Cottbus: 1x vice cup winner (1997)
08. MSV Duisburg: 1x vice cup winner (1998)
2000 – 2009:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 5x cup winner (2000/2003/2005/2006/2008)
02. FC Schalke 04: 2x cup winner (2001/2002) and 1 x vice cup winner
02. SV Werder Bremen: 2x cup winner (2004/2009) and 1x vice cup winner
04. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1x cup winner (2007)
05. Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 2x vice cup winner (2002/2009)
06. 1. FC Union Berlin: 1x vice cup winner (2001)
06. FC Kaiserslautern: 1x vice cup winner (2003)
06. Alemannia Aachen: 1x vice cup winner (2004)
06. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x vice cup winner (2006)
06. VfB Stuttgart: 1x vice cup winner (2007)
06.Borussia Dortmund: 1x vice cup winner (2008)
2010 – 2019:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 5x cup winner (2010/2013/2014/2016/2019) and 2x vice cup winner (2012/2018)
02.Borussia Dortmund: 2x cup winner (2012/2018) and 3x vice cup winner (2014/2015/2016)
03. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x cup winner (2018) and 1x vice cup winner (2017)
04. FC Schalke 04: 1x cup winner (2011)
04. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x cup winner (2015)
06. SV Werder Bremen: 1x vice cup winner (2010)
06. MSV Duisburg: 1x vice cup winner (2011)
06. VfB Stuttgart: 1x vice cup winner (2013)
06. RB Leipzig: 1x vice cup winner (2019)
And this is how it went for the German teams in the international competitions:
1960 – 1969:
01.Borussia Dortmund: 1x EP the cup winner (1966)
01. FC Bayern Munich: 1x EP the cup winner (1967)
03. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x Vice-EP of the national champions (1960)
04. TSV 1860 Munich: 1x Vice-EP of the cup winners (1965)
05. Hamburger SV: 1x Vice-EP the cup winner (1968)
1970 – 1979:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 3x EP of the national champions (1974/1975/1976)
02. Borussia Mönchengladbach: 2x UEFA Cup (1975/1979), 1 Vice-EP winner of the national champions (1977) and 1x Vice UEFA Cup (1973)
03. Hamburger SV: 1x EP the cup winner (1977)
04. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x Vice-EP Cup winner (1979)
NOTE: In addition, 1. FC Magdeburg won the EP of the cup winners in 1974 (GDR at the time).
1980 – 1989:
01 Hamburger SV: 1x EP of the national champions (1983), 1x vice EP of the national champions (1980) and 1x vice UEFA Cup (1982)
02. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x UEFA Cup winner (1980)
02. Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x EP the cup winner (1988)
04. FC Bayern Munich: 2x Vice-EP of the national champions (1982, 1987)
05.Borussia Mönchengaldbach: 1x Vice UEFA Cup (1980)
06. 1. FC Cologne: 1x Vice UEFA Cup (1986)
07.VfB Stuttgart: 1x Vice UEFA Cup (1989)
NOTE: Carl Zeiss Jena (1981) and 1.FC Lokomotive Leipzig (1987), both GDRs, also reached the final in the EP of the cup winners.
1990 – 1999:
01.Borussia Dortmund: 1x CL (1997) and 1x Vice UEFA Cup (1993)
01. FC Bayern Munich: 1x UEFA Cup winner (1996) and 1x CL Vice (1999)
03. SV Werder Bremen: 1x EP the cup winner (1992)
04. FC Schalke 04: 1x UEFA Cup winner (1997)
05. VfB Stuttgart: 1x Vice EP Cup winner (1998)
2000 – 2009:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 1x CL (2001)
02.Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x CL Vice (2002)
02.Borussia Dortmund: 1x Vice UEFA Cup (2002)
02. SV Werder Bremen: 1x Vice UEFA Cup (2009)
2010 – 2019:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 1x CL (2013) and 2x CL Vice (2010/2012)
02.Borussia Dortmund: 1x CL Vice (2013)
Football is – much to the chagrin of many clubs concerned – a sport in which – as far as the top is concerned – only title wins really matter. While a silver or bronze medal also has its value at an Olympiad, a second place in a CL final is only good for an entry as an inferior opponent in the final. That is why I would like to conclude my list of the most successful German title collectors in the respective decade:
1960 – 1969:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 1x champion, 3x cup winner, 1x EP cup winner = 5 titles
02. 1. FC Köln: 2x champions, 1x cup winner = 3 titles
02. 1. FC Nürnberg: 2x champions, 1x cup winner = 3 titles
02. Borussia Dortmund: 1x champion, 1x cup winner, 1x EP cup winner = 3 titles
05. Hamburger SV: 1x champion, 1x cup winner = 2 titles
05. SV Werder Bremen: 1x champion, 1x cup winner = 2 titles
05. TSV 1860 Munich: 1x champion, 1x cup winner = 2 titles
08. Eintracht Braunschweig: 1x master = 1 title
08.Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x master = 1 title
22 titles were spread across 9 different clubs.
1970 – 1979:
01. Borussia Mönchengladbach: 5x champions, 1x cup winner, 2x UEFA cup winner = 8 titles
02. FC Bayern Munich: 3x champions, 1x cup winner, 3x EP of the national champions = 7 titles
03. Hamburger SV: 1x champion, 1x cup winner, 1x EP the cup winner = 3 titles
03. 1. FC Köln: 1x champion, 2x cup winner = 3 titles
05. Eintracht Frankfurt: 2x cup winner = 2 titles
06. Kickers Offenbach: 1x cup winner = 1 title
06. FC Schalke 04: 1x cup winner = 1 title
06. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x cup winner = 1 title
26 titles were spread across 8 different clubs.
1980 – 1989:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 6x champions, 3x cup winners = 9 titles
02. Hamburger SV: 2x champions, 1x cup winner, 1x EP of the national champions = 4 titles
03. Eintracht Frankfurt: 2x cup winner, 1x UEFA cup winner = 3 titles
04. SV Werder Bremen: 1x master = 1 title
04. VfB Stuttgart: 1x master = 1 title
04. 1. FC Köln: 1x cup winner = 1 title
04. Fortuna Düsseldorf: 1x cup winner = 1 title
04. Bavaria 05 Uerdingen: 1x cup winner = 1 title
04. Borussia Dortmund: 1x cup winner = 1 title
04. Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x UEFA Cup winner = 1 title
23 titles were spread over 10 different clubs.
1990 – 1999:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 4x champions, 1x cup winner, 1x UEFA cup winner = 6 titles
02. SV Werder Bremen: 1x champion, 3x cup winner, 1x EP the cup winner = 5 titles
03. 1. FC Kaiserslautern: 2x champions, 2x cup winners = 4 titles
04.Borussia Dortmund: 2x champions, 1x CL = 3 titles
05. VfB Stuttgart: 1x champion, 1x cup winner = 2 titles
06. Borussia Mönchengladbach: 1x cup winner = 1 title
06. Hannover 96: 1x cup winner = 1 title
07. Bayer 04 Leverkusen: 1x cup winner = 1 title
08. FC Schalke 04: 1x UEFA Cup winner = 1 title
24 titles were spread across 9 different clubs.
2000 – 2009:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 6x champions, 5x cup winners, 1x CL = 12 titles
02. SV Werder Bremen: 1x champion, 2x cup winner = 3 titles
03. FC Schalke 04: 2x cup winner = 2 titles
04. VfB Stuttgart: 1x master = 1 title
04.Borussia Dortmund: 1x master = 1 title
04. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x master = 1 title
04. 1. FC Nürnberg: 1x cup winner = 1 title
21 titles were spread across 7 different clubs.
2010 – 2019:
01. FC Bayern Munich: 8x champions, 5x cup winners, 1 CL = 14 titles
02. Borussia Dortmund: 2x champions, 2x cup winners = 4 titles
03. Eintracht Frankfurt: 1x cup winner = 1 title
03. FC Schalke 04: 1x cup winner = 1 title
03. VfL Wolfsburg: 1x cup winner = 1 title
21 titles were spread over only 5 different clubs.
If you look at all six decades since the Bundesliga was founded, there was only one in which Bayern, not the number one hamster, was number one: And that was the time from 1970 to 1979 when the Fohlenelf was at the top. Despite the strength of Bayern, there were many other teams that also won titles for a relatively long time. And that’s why both the championship and the cup were never boring. As a member of the Ü-50 parliamentary group, I felt that as a witness from the 1970s. It was only at the turn of the millennium that Bayern’s dominance for the sporting competition in German football began to take on ever more extreme features. And especially in the last decade since 2010, this has increased to an unbearable level for all other teams.
I think that another team will replace FC Bayern Munich as number 1 in German football for a longer period of time – as long as the financial framework in this sport does not change significantly – is not possible for the foreseeable future. What I would like, however, is that – like before the turn of the millennium – more different German teams win titles again. I could live with that personally. But the way things are going in the Bundesliga right now, it’s just not fun anymore and harms me. in the long run, the attractiveness of the highest German league is also very significant.
