These have been turbulent days for Interior Minister Gerhard Karner (ÖVP): After the planned terrorist attack on a Taylor Swift concert, he renewed his call for monitoring of messenger services.
DELIVERY MAN: The 19-year-old terrorist was only caught because the US secret service intercepted his messages. What does that tell us?
Gerhard Karner: International contacts are important and are used. But our police need modern, up-to-date tools to be able to do what they are responsible for: providing people with security.
And what do the Greens say about this?
Discussions have been going on for many months.
What distinguishes your model from the one that the Constitutional Court overturned in 2019?
The warnings were taken and the law was developed in such a way that it would hold. We do not want and do not need mass surveillance. We are not interested in holiday photos or snogging with the neighbor. We want and must prevent crime and terror.
The attacker is from Vienna and has a migrant background – again. Are these normal problems in a city with a population of millions?
I am in favor of judging things individually. The main perpetrator most recently lived in a small town in Lower Austria and is an Austrian with a migration background. On the subject of Vienna: A city of millions has its challenges. We are very concerned about juvenile crime and we are taking appropriate measures. But I say with all conviction, even these days: We live in one of the safest countries in the world, and the city of Vienna is one of the safest cities in the world.
Are you not bashing Vienna at all at this point?
No, because I know that the police in Vienna do an excellent job. And yes, I would also like to have more police officers – our goal for this year is 1,000 for Vienna alone. That’s why we have launched a recruitment campaign. In 2023, we had 80 admissions in Vienna in the first half of the year, and this year 380.
Where do you stand in the debate about minimum income?
The NÖAAB said years ago: Those who work should not be the fools. I stand for that. I think the staggered model in Lower Austria makes sense. What I don’t understand is that in Vienna, for party political reasons, they did not go along with the social welfare reform and are paying out significantly more social welfare.
City councillor Peter Hacker (SPÖ) says he does not want people to drift into poverty and thus into crime.
People turn to crime when they are bored. This is something that has to be taken into account when you give people too much welfare and they have no motivation to work.
On Tuesday, they presented a “record number of deportations.” More than half of the 6,553 deportees come from European countries.
40 percent of them were criminals. And I don’t care whether they come from Slovakia, China or Afghanistan. The main thing is that criminals are taken out of the country.
The difference is that the Slovak can turn around at the border and come back.
No, it’s not that simple: He is banned from entering the country and there are checks at the border.
So you are satisfied?
No, not yet. The aim is to reduce illegal migration to zero and deport people to other countries.
Syria and Afghanistan?
Yes. Austria started the initiative, and we have now formed important alliances for deportations to Syria and Afghanistan. But it is not just about deportation, it is about sending a signal that protection is not automatic. This also reduces interest in coming to Austria and Europe.
Would you negotiate with the Assad or Taliban regime?
There is a broad alliance of EU foreign ministers on Syria. In the case of Afghanistan, there are neighbouring countries with whom we can work together.
Who would those neighbors be?
I won’t name a specific country because there are talks going on right now. And it won’t happen overnight, it’s intensive, hard work. Some people think they can prevent illegal migration by simply shouting loudly.
Is your job sometimes frustrating?
A minister of the interior must not be guided by emotions and must have a high frustration threshold. My personal requirement is: don’t get angry, work hard.
You have tightened controls on family reunification. Was the work worth it?
The numbers are going down massively. In July we had 200 entries, in March there were 1,300.
This year there were 9,000 positive decisions for asylum and 4,300 for subsidiary protection. That is a lot. These people are theoretically allowed to bring their families with them.
That is currently the law. But laws can be changed. Karoline Edtstadler (EU Minister) has proposed developing the Refugee Convention further. I think that is sensible.
There’s something interesting about your image: you seem like an asylum hardliner to the outside world. But if you ask NGOs, it almost sounds like you’re their favorite interior minister. How come?
There is an old saying: “No scolding is praise enough.”
But it is true that you are in close contact with NGOs?
It is part of my responsibility and my job to have a basis for dialogue with the NGOs. We often have different opinions, but we have to treat each other with respect and as equals. What some others do – disparaging and insulting others – is not my style.
Changing the subject: The Greens have put forward a counterproposal to the knife ban because theirs is “too lax”.
I was surprised that the suggestion came from Health Minister Johannes Rauch. His strengths seem to lie more with the scalpel than with the knife.
Do you want drunks to continue running around with knives?
You can discuss anything and everything. But we have a concrete proposal that was developed by experts and is practical for the police.
So you’re not ready to sharpen?
I am ready to adopt the proposal that has been on the table for more than three months.
Do you have a knife that you take to the fair?
I’m a hunter and yes, that has happened before. With the hunting leather trousers, it’s part of the tradition.
The reform of cell phone confiscation is also still open because no decision was made before the summer. The Ministry of Justice wants to revise the draft again. Will this be possible before the election?
I hope so. Minister Edtstadler is leading the negotiations with the Ministry of Justice. My main target is the messenger services.
But of course it affects police work. The current draft would make police work more difficult, it was said – police officers would no longer be able to check the satnav of a human trafficker or look at the cell phone of a drug dealer on site.
That is why it is important that a solution is found. Unfortunately, it is annoying that the Minister of Justice retreats from every little criticism that comes her way and is sometimes afraid of herself.
Let’s look at the National Council elections. The ÖVP says: coalition with the FPÖ only without Kickl. Who else from the FPÖ would you like?
I don’t award sympathy points and I certainly don’t speculate about coalitions.
Looking at your home state of Lower Austria, would you perhaps prefer a coalition with the SPÖ?
I am not speculating. We will do everything we can to make it through the finish line with Chancellor Karl Nehammer at the helm. I am convinced that we can do it.
Do you want to remain Interior Minister?
It is a wonderful job that I really, really enjoy doing, even when it is particularly challenging, as it is these days.
