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A work of the Research Institute of La Paz University Hospital, Idipaz, analyzes the immunity generated by vaccines both in individuals who have had the disease and in those who have not and concludes that, over time, its characteristics are not so different.
Eduardo López-Collazo, physicist, scientific director of the institution and leader of the work team that carried out the study, explains why cellular immunity is the best kept secret of vaccines and what it can do against omicron. He also tells us about how he thinks we will experience the pandemic in 2022 and the little-valued effort to disseminate science in Spain.
– Humoral, cellular immunity … How many types of immunity do we have? How many types can vaccines generate?
– We speak of humoral immunity when we refer to antibodies, and cellular, when cells of the immune system are involved, that is, of defense.
Vaccines generate both. Antibodies, humoral immunity, have an early expiration date, in a few months it drops significantly. However, we have verified that the cell phone remains at adequate levels. If a person with few antibodies but with cellular immunity becomes infected, it will take a couple of days to activate the artillery against the virus, but in the end they defend themselves. Slightly ill.
– Among the conclusions of the study is that those vaccinated who have had the disease generate a greater antibody response, but those who do not generate greater cellular immunity. For what is this? What does this conclusion imply?
– The study is quite exhaustive when evaluating the two types of immunity in vaccinated people who had the disease and those who did not. I clarify this because I have seen many published works that later reach the generalist press and commentators-talk shows where they use the phrase ‘cellular immunity’ without a solid basis.
In our case, we followed a cohort of people from before they were vaccinated until 8 months after the second dose. The results indicate that, in those who never passed the infection, two doses are necessary for the two types of immunity to be generated. On the other hand, in those who had the disease before being vaccinated, one dose is enough.
In people who have never been exposed to the virus, the vaccine generates superior cellular immunity in the first few months. However, after 8 months, cellular immunity in both groups, those that had not had the disease and those that did, is similar. Conclusion: over time there are no differences and everyone has cellular immunity.
– Those who have had the disease and have been vaccinated have been called superimmune. Does this work change this vision?
– With our work we do not see any superimmunity in that group of people.
– Why is it so difficult to know the immunity that is not that of antibodies?
– Humoral immunity, antibodies, is measured by evaluating the amount of antibodies present in the blood. Quick and inexpensive methods have been developed to do this.
However, cellular immunity is multifactorial. If we do serious work we have to expose the blood cells to a simulation of infection for a few days in the laboratory and then evaluate the response by measuring various factors: presence of some types of cells, generation of specific molecules … All this implies having what We call expertise, infrastructure and time.
It is likely that a reliable and rapid method will be developed shortly that will give us an idea, albeit indirect, that the person has generated cellular immunity. It would be advisable to avoid unnecessary mass vaccinations.
– Specialists warn that cellular immunity is the key to verifying the effectiveness of vaccines against omicron. Why would omicron not get rid of the cellular immunity generated by vaccines but instead of the antibodies? Would this also be the case for all the variants that have been and are yet to come?
– These are questions that are being answered now. With the pandemic, society has put enormous pressure on scientists, precise and solid answers are required for ‘yesterday’.
Right now in my laboratory we are evaluating what happens with immunity in omicron infections, something that has appeared less than two months ago. If someone gives you concrete answers on this, they are simply speculating.
Speculating is good at science. We usually do it to establish new hypotheses that we then check. The problem is that, if you speculate in front of an audience of millions of people, a large part of them will think that you are telling a plain truth and then the unfortunate conclusions come.
According to the experience that is being had in the emergency department, those infected with omicron who are vaccinated do not usually cause serious symptoms, quite the opposite occurs with those who are not vaccinated. There are isolated cases in which the vaccine has not helped them, but this is within expectations. The perfect vaccine does not exist and everything indicates that cellular immunity is working.
– What does it mean omicron for those who, like you, have been investigating SARS-CoV-2 since the start of the pandemic?
– Another challenge. Being more infectious and having a large part of the population vaccinated (I am speaking of Spain), it is presenting with less serious cases, but with a skyrocketing incidence. This can lead us to dream of an endemic that puts an end to the pandemic. But it is still too early to tell.
– We have gone from panic due to the increase in infections to reducing quarantines and isolations, even Israel intends to recover the strategy of ‘massive contagion‘. Do they seem reasonable to you or does it seem that we have thrown in the towel in the face of Covid?
– At some point we knew it would happen. If it is verified that, being vaccinated, the course of the disease is mild, all measures will be lifted. Of course, the risks that this implies will have to be assumed.
I am concerned about the persistent Covid cases, the still prevailing ignorance of the disparity with which the disease can manifest itself and a long etcetera that only qualifies me as a spoiler. In fact, I have eaten the end of the year grapes alone at home because nobody invited me to share a table, they consider me super strict (laughs).
– How do you see this 2022? Are you confident that a year from now we will have forgotten about the pandemic?
– I hope so, but I don’t think so. We have the pending subject of vaccinating disadvantaged countries, while it is not done, they will be a source of new variants that can complicate things. This not only means donating vaccines, it is also necessary to provide logistical infrastructures so that they arrive and are administered.
On the other hand, it will be necessary to establish how long the immunity lasts to design the annual vaccination guidelines. I only ask that we be given a break to study the problem in depth and generate solid knowledge. Oh, don’t forget that this is done with money. Laboratory reagents and apparatus are expensive; Furthermore, we scientists have to pay the bills, dress and eat.
– You never tire of promoting science, of projecting an attractive image of science to promote vocations and the interest of the general public. Have scientists taken on this part of the ‘job’ or are stones thrown at their own roof?
– If we don’t do it, nobody will. It is difficult, because outreach work is not recognized in our curriculum. I have written four popularization books in two years and that is not enough to get me promoted, nor does it score in any evaluation.
To make matters worse, the publisher does not promote my books either because, as I am not a full-time writer – that is, I do not make a living from it – they believe that they should not dedicate time and space to dissemination. A job that has fallen to me.
For now I do not waver in my intention to show the beauty of our profession. It’s exciting to pluck a secret from nature, be the first person to understand a phenomenon, or answer a question. There is nothing else sexy ni cool. On the other hand, I like to show that scientists are people who, in addition to thinking and working on solving problems, go to gymWe dance, we flirt, we fall in love and sometimes we don’t even wear glasses (laughs).
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