Rory Kockott and Benjamin Urdapilleta reflect on their eight-year relationship at Castres Olympique

You spent eight seasons together at CO, including seven on the pitch. How to summarize this relationship?

Benjamin Urdapilleta : Heavy!
Rory Kockott : Do not say that ! There, he says things that he does not mean deep down.
B.U. : If it’s the truth, but it will be missed. When you’re at home, quiet with the children watching TV on a Sunday, and you hear: (Kockott turns and taps against a window) Thumper. You jump because you are afraid. And you see Rory laughing behind the tiles! I don’t know if I will find a friend like that in Argentina.
R.K. : If we do that to him there, he’ll call the police.
B.U. : (He bursts out laughing) Ah yes, that would mean it’s dangerous!
R.K. : Our bond has especially strengthened during the last two or three seasons, because we have lived through difficult times. Rugby remains a story of men. You have to know how to have a link beyond the normal. We are all different. We don’t like things… (he thinks to find the right word).
B.U. : Ah… the philosopher (smiles).
R.K. : How do you say when you see things all the time, every day?

A habit or a routine?

R.K. : But still ?
B.U. : You will see that he will use the same word…
R.K. : Oh yes ! It becomes usual. The same. Below normal.
B.U. : Yes it’s good we understand (laughs).
R.K. : I’m not like that, I prefer us to be different.

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And you are, aren’t you?

B.U. : I’m more sentimental. Him too, even if he hides it. In Argentina, we are demonstrative. During all these years, we got to know each other, we are more than teammates, we are real friends. I was lucky enough to know Rory through rugby. I’m delighted and I hope that we will continue to see each other afterwards. That he will come to Argentina and I to South Africa. Be careful, I don’t want to go into the forest or go hunting!
R.K. : He’s a city man…

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Benjamin, you call him the philosopher. His philosophical impulses are so common as that?

B.U. : Each answer…
R.K. : I don’t like the things everyone says!
B.U. : It’s not just me who calls it that. When we did the leadership meetings, we waited impatiently for Rory to speak (laughs). Before speaking, he would say: hahaha (he mimics a posture where he extends his arms and leans back in the chair, stifling a laugh). I do not know why !

Why then Rory?

R.K. : I hate the uniformity of saying things that’s all. You can’t do great things by being uniform. If there is a way to do it, in fact, there are 20. At the end of these 20, you will see that there are 40. I think that we are sometimes too narrow in our visions.

Do you remember the first impression you had of each?

B.U. : No, no!
R.K. : When you look at it, what do you think about? (Urdapilleta bursts out laughing). Me not in rugby… Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.
B.U. : When I arrived in Castres, I knew who he was, since he was known, but nothing more. Other players told me that it would be difficult as we have two large characters. In the end, it went really well, even if it wasn’t easy at first.

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That’s to say ?

R.K. : We balanced our balance. Even if in my opinion, it is a great man who allowed it. I remember one Tuesday morning…
B.U. : (He cuts it off) Ah yes, incredible!
R.K. : We were about to start a big day of work. You sleep well at night, you wake up, get ready and then… Summoned at 7:30 am to a breakfast at the Caussea hotel with Christophe Urios and Benjamin Urdapilleta. I then wonder what the three of us are going to do at 7:30. Christophe tells us that it can’t go on like this. He outlined what he expected from us, talked about another scrum-half. Incidentally, if that doesn’t work out Rory, we’ll get someone else. Benji too… move your ass. From there, we did what was necessary to create strong foundations.

What is the main quality of one and the other according to you?

B.U. : He is a leader, always there in important moments. If I had to make a team, I would like to have 14 or 15 Rory, although I recognize that it would be complicated (laughs). I loved playing with him too much, I was calm. The only thing I didn’t really like was that I often had to go get him because he was discussing either with the referees, the supporters, when I had to make announcements to the team! Then, humanly, he is generous and I know that we can count on him. On the other hand, I find that he does not cry enough (smile).
R.K. : Benjamin is a very sincere person. And it doesn’t look like he’s laughing all the time. It is the eternal spark of a team. Many people say that without him, next year, it will be sadder in Castres. In my eyes, it is this human side that is the most important. And on the field, he is a competitor. The athlete is only the image of man.
B.U. : Ah yes, Rory makes very good barbecues. He’s a good “welcome” (he hesitates). Do we say like that?
R.K. : We say cook Benji… You have to learn French.
B.U. : But no ! I mean you know how to receive! See, he’s always trying to teach you things you know. For example, I will tap for the kickoff. He said to me: “Watch out, the wind is blowing. Hey, it’s okay Rory, I know it’s blowing! The other day, we were playing golf. We were playing each other and teaming him up with a guy who plays a lot. And Rory explained everything to him!
R.K. : No, I was helping him.
B.U. : In fact, he will always explain to you, even something he has never done (laughs).

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With your two characters, there were some sparks. Do you remember a particular shouting match?

R.K. : Already, none is useless. It helps build a relationship.
B.U. : We got angry sometimes but that’s normal in a team.
R.K. : I have a memory that is not a shouting match. We received Toulouse (in April 2018, 28-23). We have a penalty at 58 meters. I want to go into touch to score a try. Benji throws me: “No Rory try it! He believed in me. Not me.
B.U. : And what did you do huh?
R.K. : We do not care ! The important thing is the process in this case.
B.U. : I told him it was important for the team. I was more confident, that’s for sure. But he passed it.

What is your best memory ?

R.K. : There are plenty that we can’t talk about…

Let’s limit ourselves to the field then.

R.K. : In 2018, for many, Castres was not a team that could go so far (champion of France). But the supervision of Christophe (Urios), and this real culture that there was put us in a favorable position for growth. I will remember the half won against Racing (19-14). It was the toughest match I have ever played. We went beyond what was expected.
B.U. : Of course I’m going to talk about the 2018 title. As soon as I arrived in France, I dreamed of the Brennus. So winning it was my greatest rugby joy. And doing that next to Rory too, who was important in this quest for the title, it will stay.

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Otherwise, we want to know. Which of you two was in command in the field?

R.K. : Benji commanded everything. And me, when I wanted!
B.U. : Normally it’s 10. With Rory’s personality, it’s impossible for him to leave everything.
R.K. : In some situations, I knew what he was going to announce. But sometimes I wanted something else. So I changed.
B.U. : In fact I told him to the right and he went to the left. At first, it pissed me off. Afterwards, I knew it and let it be.
R.K. : If I had sucked, I would have taken less responsibility!