Status: 10.12.2022 14:21
The right-wingers and supporters of the Reichsbürger scene consciously seek contact with people who work in public authorities or the police. This was stated by Lower Saxony’s Interior Minister Boris Pistorius (SPD) in a radio interview with NDR Info.
Among the 25 people arrested in the raid on the scene of the Reichsbürger at the end of the week were a former police officer of the Hanover police department who had been removed from duty by court decision, a doctor from Peine and a lawyer from Hanover. The federal prosecutor’s charge is: Membership and support of a domestic terrorist organization. Meanwhile, 23 suspected members and supporters are in custody. How dangerous are the citizens of the Reich? Lower Saxony’s interior minister Pistorius answered these and other questions on NDR Info on Saturday.
Mr. Pistorius, were you aware of the investigation leading up to this raid?
Boris Pistorio: No, I wasn’t. This is also not common.
Three arrests took place in Lower Saxony. Who are the arrested? One is said to be a former police officer also known as a corona denier.
Pistorius: That’s right, it is. The man was removed from police service for six months.
According to the attorney general, at least one active Bundeswehr soldier and two other former soldiers were involved in the coup plans. And in Lower Saxony, an LKA official said to have worked in state security has been released in connection with the raid. You can confirm? What is he accused of?
Pistorius: According to my information, the man does not belong to the inner circle. He also he was not arrested in the course of the action. The form in which participation can be established is now being investigated by the Federal Attorney General’s Office. That’s right: he’s been ill since last November and unable to work, he hasn’t worked since. Before that, a few months after a long illness, he was engaged in a short reintegration measure, part-time, so to speak. He didn’t have full investigative duties at the time. However, he hasn’t been on active duty there since November because he was ill.
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What about the connections between the citizens of the Reich and the police and army? What can you tell us about it from the point of view of Lower Saxony?
Pistorius: The problem with this assessment is obviously, and everyone can understand it, that we cannot look inside the heads of civil servants. We do not immediately notice those who move conspiratorially and change in the course of their lives, as has happened in the wake of corona and pandemic deniers. Only when it shows up. As was the case with the police officer we removed from duty. But it’s true: Of course, the Reichsbürger scene has his contacts, just like the AfD. And that is why we in the Lower Saxony police do everything to ensure that our police are immunized against it; that we have created a culture where people talk about these things and also discuss them – and above all denounce them. It ends up harming the entire organization if it spreads.
You just mentioned the AfD. Among those arrested across Germany is a former AfD member of the Bundestag. According to your findings, how close are the links between the Reichsbürger scene and the AfD?
Pistorius: They exist because there are overlaps in content. For example, the support or non-rejection of the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine, the rejection of the USA, the rejection of our democratic constitutional state that goes to the depths of the AfD – but also of the Reichsbürger scene. There are many intersections. At the same time, however, it must be said that the citizen thinking of the Reich is not so dominant in the AfD. But it is increasing. In the past, the AfD has demonstrated time and again that it can penetrate certain subject areas in order to generate political fuel for its own purposes. We are also observing it here.
How big is the Reichsbürger scene in Lower Saxony? And how dangerous do you think they are?
Pistorius: The Reichsbürger scene in Lower Saxony has been stable for several years. Suppose there are about 900 members of this scene – about 50 of them right-wing extremists, this is another special crossroads. But the citizens of the Reich are stronger in other countries. But there are also 900 of them in Lower Saxony – and some of them are considered violent, yes.
How do you handle this Reichsbürger scene in Lower Saxony politically?
Pistorius: On two levels: First, we started very early. Back in 2016, we urged the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution to put the topic of monitoring the Reich citizen scene on the agenda of the office conference. This has always been dismissed as irrelevant; perhaps this could be discussed in “Miscellaneous”. It was only after a citizen of the Reich killed a SEK official in Bavaria in October 2016 that people woke up. Since then, the citizens of the Reich have been subjected to observation. This is also necessary. In the same year, I issued a decree which instructed the armed authorities to say, if they could prove their identity as a citizen of the Reich: We confiscate weapons, as far as there are weapons. We’ve done it very consistently since then. We have to make it legal. But we are doing everything, together with the armed authorities, to ensure that these people, who demonstrably reject this state, no longer legally own guns.
You said you knew nothing about this break-in and the investigation that preceded it. Now do you feel like enough is happening? The Federal Public Prosecutor had ensured that democracy in Germany had never been in danger. But there are many political voices who are concerned. How are you there?
Pistorius: Both are true. I think this specific case must be alarming. It must make everyone understand – including the last doubters – that it is a scene that not only tells stupid things and somehow rejects this state, but is also willing to enter the criminal environment, to commit crimes and to commit murders and crimes of subversion. You have to have it on screen. This is dangerous. It is therefore quite clear that we must be very vigilant. But this is exactly what the security authorities have proved in this case. We investigated meticulously – over a long period of time – and then carried out this very successful and concerted strike.
The interview was conducted by Ulrike Heckmann, NDR Info.
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