The former head of the Central Anticorruption Bureau, Paweł Wojtunik, appeared before the Senate’s extraordinary committee for surveillance with Pegasus. He assessed that “it is legally impossible to apply this tool to citizens of one’s own country, because it is difficult to limit the scope of this device”. In his opinion, obtaining funds for the purchase of software from outside the state budget “is scandalous and unprecedented”.
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On Tuesday, the Senate’s extraordinary committee that has been dealing with software surveillance cases since mid-January Pegasus she asked Paweł Wojtunik, the head of the CBA in 2009-2015. Wojtunik was asked, among other things, about the purchase assessment and the use of Pegasus in Poland. – I have a negative opinion about the purchase of this device, the procedure itself and how the device has been or is still used – he said.
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In his opinion, “the Pegasus purchase procedure is a contradiction of independence.” – Obtaining funds from outside the budget is scandalous and unprecedented. Anti-corruption institutions are financed from state budgets. This purchase was not financed from the state budget – pointed out Wojtunik.
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Wojtunik: I have information on which services could use Pegasus
Doubts as to the correctness of financing the purchase of the system were previously expressed by the President of the Supreme Audit Office, Marian Banaś. According to NIK, the activities of the CBA were co-financed by the Justice Fund with the amount of PLN 25 million, which was used to purchase – as stated in the financial documentation – operating techniques.
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The former head of the CBA said he had information about the scale of expenses and what services outside the CBA could use Pegasus. He stipulated that he could provide details on this matter during a closed session of the committee.
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Paweł Wojtunik before the Senate committee on PegasusPAP / Tomasz Gzell
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According to him, Pegasus is a tool created for intelligence and counterintelligence services and for carrying out activities outside the country. – The scope of possible interference with civil rights and freedoms, in my opinion, makes it legally impossible to use this tool against citizens of your own country, because it is difficult to limit the scope of this device – he added.
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Wojtunik: it is legally impossible to apply Pegasus to citizens of your own countryTVN24
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Wojtunik on how the CBA works during the first PiS rule
According to Wojtunik, Pegasus was not bought by the Polish services in order to increase the level of Poland’s security. – This cannot be seen in the effects of the activities of the services or in the current information – he stressed.
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Wojtunik also talked about the ways in which the CBA worked before he took over the leadership, i.e. during the first PiS rule. The head of the CBA at that time was the current minister Mariusz Kamiński, and the deputy head was the current deputy minister Maciej Wąsik. – I found an organization that was very focused on the application of operational control. It was one of the first tools used by the CBA at the time. (…) Operational control was something that was almost an exciting factor for some officers and some management. It was a very unhealthy excitement, he said.
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He reported that Maciej Wąsik, the former deputy head of the CBA, was involved in listening to the calls overheard and recorded as part of the operational control. – To this day, we do not agree on how many thousands of times he listened to the conversations collected in the CBA electronic system. We have revealed over 6,000 such cases. It is confirmed on the basis of logging into the system – said Wojtunik.
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He made a reservation that it was not a crime. – But it is undoubtedly compulsive and inappropriate behavior, exceeding the standards of operational control – he assessed.
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Paweł Wojtunik before the Senate committee on PegasusPAP / Tomasz Gzell
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Wojtunik about attacks on his family
The former head of the CBA also informed about attacks on his family. – What we have experienced recently, shameful phone calls and the use of our addresses, are not just ordinary spoofing attacks. And even if someone sees them like that, please feel the role of my children, my wife’s skin and I think that the perspective will also change – assessed Wojtunik.
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READ: The former head of the CBA informs about another attack on his family’s phone >>>
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– What is happening, I think, is intended to intimidate us, which will not succeed immediately, I emphasize. Significantly, all three attacks took place the day I spoke publicly about Pegasus. Of course, critical of Pegasus. We already joke in the family that when I speak in public, something will happen in the evening. And that has recently been confirmed. Because I spoke out publicly and we received criminal threats again – he added.
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Pegasus surveillance case
The Senate’s emergency committee, which has cleared up illegal Pegasus surveillance since mid-January, has no investigative powers; it has such powers a parliamentary investigative commission that the opposition wants to set up.
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The establishment of the Senate committee follows the findings of the Citizen Lab group operating at the University of Toronto. She said that Roman Giertych, prosecutor Ewa Wrzosek and KO senator Krzysztof Brejza were under surveillance using the Pegasus software developed by the Israeli company NSO Group. The politician’s phone was supposed to be hacked 33 times in the period from April 26, 2019 to October 23, 2019, when he was the chief of staff of the KO before the parliamentary elections.
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photo-source">Main photo source: PAP / Tomasz Gzell
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