– There may be quite a lot of proof that Tomasz Mraz collected, not solely recordings, additionally paperwork – mentioned Roman Giertych, the protection lawyer of Mraz, former director of the Justice Fund Division on the Ministry of Justice, in “Kropka nad i” on TVN24. In his opinion, this proof constitutes “the premise for concluding that we have been coping with an organized prison group.”
The parliamentary crew answerable for PiS settlements met on Wednesday. Tomasz Mraz, former director of the Justice Fund Division on the Ministry of Justice, took half within the assembly. Mraz is likely one of the suspects within the investigation into the Justice Fund and is described because the “key witness” on this case who’s “slandering the gangsters.” He’s a consumer of Roman Giertych, the pinnacle of this parliamentary crew.
AFRAID AROUND THE JUSTICE FUND
Mraz mentioned, amongst different issues, that in issues regarding competitors choices underneath the Justice Fund, Zbigniew Ziobro was “really the principle decision-maker.”
READ MORE: What the previous director of the Justice Fund Division mentioned
Giertych: Mraz got here to me himself
Giertych, who can also be an MP and vice-chairman of the Civic Coalition membership, spoke extra about this case in “Kropka nad i” on TVN24.
He was requested if Mraz had turned himself in.
– Sure, in the beginning of this 12 months he got here to an enchantment, which I all the time repeat, for individuals who have data about irregularities and crimes dedicated within the PiS camp to contact me, for instance additionally to Jacek Dubois, who can also be his defender in order that we are able to, utilizing the provisions of the Code of Felony Process, Article 60 of the Penal Code, i.e. the standing of the so-called a small crown witness, testify and likewise divulge to the general public what could be disclosed – he mentioned.
Giertych: I do know the content material of Mraz’s recordings
Giertych was requested whether or not he knew that – as Onet reported – Mraz had been recording the management of the Ministry of Justice for nearly two years and had collected about 50 hours of recordings.
– There may be quite a lot of proof collected by Mr. Tomasz Mraz, not solely recordings, but in addition paperwork, which, in my view, represent the premise for concluding that we have been coping with an organized prison group that operated underneath the management of Mr. Zbigniew Ziobro and whose aim was to steal cash supposed for the poorest, for individuals who have been to learn from the Justice Fund – replied Giertych.
He added that he listened to them “for a really very long time.” – I feel that is vital materials collected within the ongoing proceedings, so I don’t need to (disclose – ed.) particulars on this regard as a result of I might not wish to spoil the proceedings for the prosecutor’s workplace in any means. Though, after all, this proof was collected in my workplace earlier than the proceedings even began, he famous.
Giertych: after I heard this story for the primary time, I assumed I used to be going to fall off my chair
Giertych commented in additional element on a fraction of Mraz’s recording printed by Onet. It considerations a dialog from 2022 between the then Deputy Minister of Justice, Marcin Romanowski, and Jakub Romelczyk, the then regional prosecutor in Warsaw, throughout which they decide what resolution the prosecutor’s workplace will make in one of many instances.
– Once I heard this story for the primary time – it was in all probability January this 12 months – I assumed I used to be going to fall off my chair. There has by no means been something like this. Firstly, there must be an organized group led by the prosecutor basic, i.e. the one who had the constitutional obligation to guard justice, obey the regulation, and implement the ideas of the structure. Furthermore, for this organized prison group to be found in such an unimaginable means, he mentioned.
– That is surprising as a result of we have been coping with a state of affairs by which the prosecutor calls a possible suspect, saying, firstly, that “we is not going to conduct the proceedings”, and secondly, the right way to keep away from a state of affairs by which the choose will overturn a potential resolution of the prosecutor’s workplace to refuse proceedings – he continued.
Giertych: after I heard this story for the primary time, I assumed I used to be going to fall off my chair
Giertych: prosecutors nonetheless have quite a lot of work to do
Giertych: Sooner or later, Mraz realized that he was in a prison ring
Giertych was requested why he thought Tomasz Mraz determined to file the conversations.
– For my part, sooner or later he realized that he was in a system that was merely prison (…). He realized that he was in a really uninteresting atmosphere and began documenting it – replied Roman Giertych.
Giertych: Mraz got here to me on the first potential second
Giertych was additionally requested why Mraz didn’t report back to regulation enforcement earlier, since he already had the recordings at his disposal. Based on the lawyer, “he got here on the first potential second when he was not in peril” of being instantly detained and arrested for revealing this sort of story. – And the data supplied by Mraz, saying that public cash was used for political functions, has and is now affecting this group a lot that there’s merely nothing to gather, commented Giertych.
Giertych on the “limits” of MPs: allow them to prepare
The TVN24 visitor additionally referred to Mraz’s phrases from his Wednesday speech, when he mentioned that “when the budgets for a given 12 months have been established, an off-the-cuff checklist was created recognizing the bounds for particular person constituency chairmen.” Mraz mentioned that “politicians traded with this cash inside these limits.”
– I need to inform every of these MPs who had a restrict to prepare. As a result of if he took public cash and spent it on an election marketing campaign, he dedicated a criminal offense. He robbed the poorest folks to enhance his electoral state of affairs, mentioned Giertych. Giertych was additionally requested in regards to the validity of Mraz offering data to the general public since he’s a suspect in an ongoing investigation.
– If somebody has data about prison exercise and tells it within the prosecutor’s workplace, it doesn’t imply that they can not discuss it. Quite the opposite, typically there may be even an ethical requirement to say it. And it appears to me that the director was guided by such an ethical crucial that he determined to make yesterday’s speech – defined the patron.
He added that the key of the investigation considerations what somebody realized about from the proceedings themselves.
Giertych: I am correcting you, it was about two knees
Giertych additionally referred to Mraz’s phrases in regards to the “first knee of the Republic of Poland.” Based on Mraz, it was about co-financing the medical facility the place PiS president Jarosław Kaczyński underwent knee surgical procedure.
Journalists ask Kaczyński whose “first knee of the Republic of Poland” is
– I need to appropriate this data, as a result of – from what the director informed me – it was about two knees. Supposedly, there have been two funds for this knee, though he solely is aware of in regards to the first one from rumour, and the second he appeared to take part in, he mentioned. – You possibly can say that in a means, Jarosław Kaczyński saved this cash for public functions, as a result of a machine was purchased and this medical gear is used, and the remaining was embezzled. However however, it reveals what sort of Bantustan we lived in, that somebody wished to please the docs who handled the chief of the nation – added the visitor of “Kropka nad i”.
Giertych: I am correcting you, it was about two knees
Giertych: we’re at a breakthrough second
Giertych additionally talked about how, in his opinion, the disclosure of irregularities associated to the Justice Fund will have an effect on society’s notion of PiS and Sovereign Poland.
– For my part, we’re at a turning level – he mentioned.
– Displaying what PiS was and on the instance of Solidarity (Sovereign – ed.) Poland, which was essentially the most degenerate a part of PiS, is the second when society lastly has the chance to listen to with its personal eyes, with its personal ears, see the way it really occurred. And all these lies, these tales, these nonsense that Ziobro and his pals informed, they merely disintegrate within the context of confrontation with the proof – he continued.
He added that “folks have the correct to be taught extra about this matter.”
Giertych: we’re at a breakthrough momentTVN24
Giertych: I do not see any battle of curiosity
photo-source">Supply of important photograph: TVN24
