“Interview with World Chess King Ding Liren: The Path to Victory and Overcoming Adversity”

On May 18, Ding Liren, who won the title of “World Chess King”, returned with honors and participated in media exchange activities at the Chinese Chess Academy. 18 days ago, in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan, the 2023 World Chess Championship was in the 18th round. Ding Liren defeated the famous Russian player Nepomnyach and became the 17th “World Chess King” and the 1st player in modern chess. A “World Chess King” from China.

On May 11, we conducted an exclusive interview with Ding Liren, who is still abroad, via the Internet. A week later, the newly promoted “World Chess King” returned to China, and we followed up and filmed him and interviewed him again. We hope that through two interviews, we can deeply explore the path that Ding Liren, who is only 30 years old this year, has gone and will go in the future.

Ding Liren: When I knew I was going to participate in this world championship, I felt a kind of pressure.

On the eve of the World Championship, Ding Liren had to seek help from a psychiatrist due to excessive pressure.

Reporter: You went to a psychiatrist during the Chess Championship.

Ding Liren: Yes.

Reporter: What problem do you want to ask him to solve this time?

Ding Liren: Before the competition, my mind fluctuated greatly. I had a lot of thoughts at that time, so I found a psychiatrist. He told me a word, called moving to change the scene, you stay in one place, you can go to change the environment after staying for a long time, maybe your thinking will change a little bit.

The production method of the “World Chess King” of chess is different from other modern sports events. It is very similar to the “challenging arena” in the past: a group of masters first fight to determine the strongest one. This process is the “candidate match”. The champion of the Candidate Tournament will compete with the current “World Chess King”, and the winner will be the new “World Chess King”. Ding Liren participated in the 2018 and 2020 Candidates Tournament successively, but his ranking was low and he missed the next World Championship. In 2022, he will enter the “candidates” again, starting against the famous Russian player Nepomniacki.

Reporter: In the first game, you played against Nepomniacki. How was your condition at that time?

Ding Liren: I didn’t play very well and lost very quickly.

Reporter: What kind of impact will such an opening have on yourself?

Ding Liren: Losing a game of chess is definitely not good. It’s just a bit of a shock. I still had great expectations before I went. After losing, it was true that there was a chance to win in the next few games, but I didn’t grasp it. I made a draw. Basically, I felt that there was not much hope at the time, so I calmed down and played one game at a time. The result was instead Still unexpected.

With a calm mind, Ding Liren overcame obstacles all the way, and finally won the runner-up in the “Candidates Competition”, while Nepomniacki won the championship. If everything is normal, Nepomniacki will participate in the world championship and challenge the “World Chess King” Carlsen who has won five consecutive championships. But the development of the situation was unexpected again. In October 2022, because Carlsen announced that he would give up defending the title, Ding Liren got the chance to be a substitute. FIDE invited him to participate in the 2023 World Championship and compete with Nepomniacki for the “World Chess King”.

Reporter: Are you surprised?

Ding Liren: Both surprises and surprises.

In addition to surprises and surprises, Carlson’s retirement also had an impact on Ding Liren’s psychology.

Ding Liren: At that time, he almost won most of the championships in this decade, and he had absolute dominance in this decade. Our post-90s generation of chess players can basically be said to be during his reign, and we have also adapted to this. It feels like someone is covering you all the time. When I really need to hit this championship, my motivation to push up suddenly weakens a little.

Reporter: Now that he voluntarily gave up the title of Chess King and gave you a chance, why do you feel less motivated than before?

Ding Liren: I am so used to him being the chess king, or I am looking forward to a duel with him. He is a role model, and he seems to have a heart to retire. At this time, he is chasing me up. The motivation is also affected.

On April 7, 2023, the 2023 World Chess Championship kicked off as scheduled in Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan.

Reporter: When I went to participate in the match against Nepomniacki in April this year, is the state comparable to the state when I faced him for the first time half a year ago?

Ding Liren: This game is definitely more unpredictable, because I have never participated in it, and Chinese chess players have never participated in it before. No one knows what it is like to be a world championship match.

Many people regard the World Chess Championship as a climb to win the crown jewel, and every step of this climb is full of unknowns for Ding Liren.

Ding Liren: I played badly and lost the second game very easily.

Reporter: What does this mean?

Ding Liren: Without any resistance, it was a mess.

Reporter: You look back and think about what happened, what happened to me?

Ding Liren: I was quite emotional during the game. In the first two games, I basically didn’t sit on the stage. I spent most of my time in the waiting room thinking about the board. I may not have adapted to this occasion and this environment at all.

At that time, Ding Liren, who was emotionally unstable, would even be easily influenced by his opponent Nepomnyach.

Ding Liren: For example, when I first shook hands with me, I always had a smile on my face, but if I win the previous chess game, it will be even more so in the second game. But if he loses the last game, I can notice that he is so cold and expressionless when shaking hands, and he may deliberately walk in front of me in some situations, or put his hands up like this to impose on me. psychological pressure.

Reporter: To a certain extent, he may be doing it on purpose, using his aura to frighten you. Will you be affected at first?

Ding Liren: He acts as if he is in control of the situation, which will make you doubt your original judgment on the situation.

Reporter: When did you feel that you could hold him down with a bit of momentum?

Ding Liren: In terms of momentum, I don’t seem to have the upper hand.

Afterwards, Ding Liren himself analyzed that the fear of the stage in the World Championship and the emotional disturbance at the beginning of the game may be related to his experience. Ding Liren was born in Wenzhou, Zhejiang Province in 1992. He had a strong interest in various chess and card games since he was a child. He started to learn chess at the age of 4, won the national championship of his age group at the age of 5, and became the youngest male national individual chess champion at the age of 17. He was selected into the national team at the age of 18 and promoted to the men’s chess grandmaster. However, with the continuous improvement of chess skills, he found that he lost interest for a while.

Ding Liren: I used to think that maybe the chess, the content, and some things have been thoroughly researched, and the opening game has been played by others, so it is boring to play.

In 2021, Ding Liren began to learn about chess artificial intelligence training, and he suddenly found himself finding a new interest.

Ding Liren: For a while, I basically didn’t watch human games, and only studied AI games. The game played by artificial intelligence may be really accurate without any flaws or omissions. This is a game that is close to perfection.

Reporter: But people can never compare with machines. Machines have no blood, and machines have no emotions.

Ding Liren: For a while, I felt like I was in this state, so I felt that my goal at the time was to become the best chess player, that is, to be able to play as accurately as a machine.

As more and more chess games are played online, Ding Liren began to doubt the necessity of playing chess face to face.

Ding Liren: It seems that there is not much need for people to play face-to-face chess. Face-to-face chess is not much different from those online games. They are both a game of chess. The initial situation is the same, the rules are the same, and even It is said that in a net game, you may play better without the pressure and influence of your opponent when facing the screen, but later you completely get into chess, and you don’t care about this kind of interaction between people.

Reporter: Are you aware of its problems?

Ding Liren: I also feel that I need to adjust it. At that time, I felt that I could not speak well. It may be that I have studied a lot of machine languages, and I am not very good at speaking human languages.

Reporter: You want to be precise at every step, as precise as a machine, but in the actual game process, you need to win.

Ding Liren: Yes.

Reporter: Is there a conflict here?

Ding Liren: First of all, if the opponent makes a move that you don’t understand, I may sometimes feel disappointed instead of lucky.

Reporter: Would you rather lose at a high level or win at a low level?

Ding Liren: This is what I thought at the time when studying smart games, even if it is a draw, it is also a very accurate draw. People play chess to win or lose, but this game of chess has won or lost, but it seems that there are loopholes everywhere.

Reporter: This is life, it is not a vacuum, sometimes you have to pursue the so-called, what you think is not precise and imperfect, but I need it, just need it.

Ding Liren: Yes, it’s strange, indeed, because after losing, I really feel uncomfortable.

According to the competition system, Ding Liren and Nepomniacki have to play 14 rounds of slow chess first. Winning a round gets 1 point, a tie gets 0.5 points, and the first to get 7.5 points wins the championship. After the eighth round, Ding Liren fell behind with a score of 3.5:4.5.

Reporter: How do you face the ending of losing?

Ding Liren: Losing chess is of course very difficult.

Reporter: What kind of uncomfortable method would it be if you lose a chess game?

Ding Liren: Before I lost chess, I didn’t really want to have dinner. I just wanted to stay in the room. Later, when I lost the game, I probably wanted to leave the arena as soon as possible, and I didn’t want to stay in the arena for a longer period of time.

Reporter: Does it take a long time to get out of a bad mood?

Ding Liren: It’s hard to say how long it will be, one hour.

Reporter: Can you come out so soon?

Ding Liren: When you feel uncomfortable, it’s the replay, where you went wrong. If you want to understand this place, you will almost know it.

In the 14 rounds of slow chess, Ding Liren was behind by a total of 8 rounds, but he fell behind three times and equalized three times. Ding Liren showed excellent resistance to pressure in adversity, especially in the 14th round, the two sides played a game The marathon lasted 6 hours and 33 minutes and 90 rounds.

Reporter: How do you feel after playing chess for several hours?

Ding Liren: At that time, I couldn’t sit like this normally, sitting and thinking seriously, so I just moved the chair over and it was like this.

Reporter: Can’t sit still?

Ding Liren: The whole person is in that state, I can’t even think about it.

Reporter: I can’t think about it anymore.

Ding Liren: Yes, it was very tiring. I was also in a very unfavorable situation in the last slow game. At that time, I thought of a sentence Rilke said, there is no such thing as victory, persistence is everything.

In the end, in the 14th round of draw, the two sides drew 7-7 with a big score. On April 30th, the game entered into four rounds of blitz chess playoffs. As a result, both players drew in the first three extra rounds. advantage, he had a record of 4 wins and 1 loss against Ding Liren in the previous blitz chess match. In the fourth round of the fast chess extra round, Niebo tried every means to find a chance to draw, but Ding Liren refused to draw, and kept looking for opportunities to fight, and finally won with one move.

Reporter: Everyone thinks that your game is a draw, but they didn’t expect you to take the lead for the first time in the entire 18 games, that is to say, you are completely ahead.

Ding Liren: It is indeed a bit unbelievable, just like in the anime where the team trails the whole game, and the last moment is very dramatic.

Reporter: Did you expect such a reaction from your opponent?

Ding Liren: He was just holding onto the table with his hands, feeling as if he had already gritted his teeth, but he couldn’t find a way to deal with it. It’s like two boxers who saw a movie before, and the two boxers were beaten until their noses were bruised and their faces were swollen. Relying on this kind of will to support, maybe I lasted until the end.

Ding Liren won the rapid chess extra match with a score of 2.5:1.5, and finally won the title of “World Chess King”. At the last moment of the game, Ding Liren gently shook off the chess pieces in his hands, covered his face with his hands, and did not get up for a long time. This scene moved countless people.

Reporter: Cover your face, is that your subconscious reaction?

Ding Liren: Yes.

Reporter: What kind of emotions do you want to hide?

Ding Liren: A state that had been very tense suddenly relaxed. It seems that since all this really happened, you saw that I sat there with my face covered for a while on the field, and then I got up and left. , but I actually cried uncontrollably in the break room.

Reporter: What is the reason for the emotional outburst, and how much emotion is in it?

Ding Liren: First of all, it is my own contribution during this period. I said before I went that if I won the championship, I would definitely cry. After the game, I was indeed released. Like a veteran of a war.

This moment is also destined to be written into the history of Chinese chess. Xie Jun won the women’s individual world championship for the first time after China’s first generation of chess in 1991, the Chinese women’s team won the Olympiad women’s team championship for the first time in 1998, and the Chinese men’s team won the first women’s team championship in 2014. After the Olympiad men’s team championship, Ding Liren won the title of “World Chess King” for the first time, and realized the strategic goal of “four steps” in Chinese chess. This will be a brand new starting point for both Chinese chess and Ding Liren . Two years later, in the new World Championship, Ding Liren will face a new challenger as the current “World Chess King”. He admitted that he was not ready yet.

Reporter: First of all, there has never been a men’s chess champion in China before. You are the pioneer, so the unknown after victory always makes people feel a little at a loss.

Ding Liren: Yes, like before, I thought that apart from being good at chess and having a little hobby of my own, I was not very good at other aspects. Now suddenly I have to make decisions on many things. For example, some sponsors ask you whether you want to accept it or not, you have to decide for yourself.

Reporter: Is it a burden for you?

Ding Liren: Yes, I am not used to it.

Reporter: It’s like when you play chess, you not only have to play against machines and artificial intelligence, but also face to face with people. This is a real world made up of people, and you can’t avoid dealing with people. Maybe this It is a process that you have to accept gradually after you become the king of chess.

Ding Liren: I didn’t sleep well last night, so I thought about what to do next. Before that, I always felt that climbing up is more exciting than standing on the top. Now that I am standing on the top, I really need a new motivation, just like what Carlson’s father said to motivate Carlson, he said you Look, although you look up and there are no people, but if you look down, you see people below.