After ten years of practice with a criminal lawyer, Dorothée Bisaccia-Bernstein joined forces in 2015 with her colleagues Clotilde Lepetit, Laure Heinich and Karine Bourdié to set up the law firm 7 Bac. “We wanted to provide quality service and real expertise in violence against women,” she explains. Each one being rich in its respective associative commitments with Ni putes, ni submitted, or even the Maison des Femmes. The subject of internal investigations came to them through Clotilde Lepetit, who was a member of the Bar Council. “As part of her ordinal activity, she was sometimes in charge of an ethical investigation with colleagues who were the subject of a report or questioning”, underlines Dorothée Bisaccia-Bernstein. Gradually, the 7 Bac firm began to develop this process of internal investigations within companies. “Because traditional justice, with very long criminal investigations did not necessarily meet the objectives that companies expected in terms of responsiveness and communication”. She explains to Challenges why internal investigations can be a tool to fight against sexual violence in companies.
Challenges – Does current justice sufficiently protect employees from sexual violence?
Dorothee Bisaccia-Bernstein – In my opinion, labor courts are quite protective. On moral harassment, case law is very repressive today, whereas ten years ago, we were unable to have employers condemned. Employees are better protected by justice, but it does not have the means. There are not enough judges nor enough investigations, and above all the time is far too long for the employees. This is why internal surveys have a real role to play, both so that employees see their situation appreciated, but also because it is an incentive for companies to take responsibility vis-à-vis their employees. .
Concretely, how does an internal investigation work?
Today, internal investigations mean everything and nothing. Its framework will have to evolve in the months and years to come. Indeed, as soon as we launch an investigation in France, we are subject to Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights. So we have to provide all the guarantees that any court provides to someone, namely the presumption of innocence, adversarial proceedings, the right of defense, the right to be assisted by a lawyer. This is to ensure that all the principles of protection of the litigant are guaranteed, which is not yet the case for all the internal investigations carried out at the moment. If an internal investigation is done well, it is comparable to a police investigation, except that it will be conducted internally or by law firm type investigators. It will therefore be hearings conducted in pairs, we will be able to carry out a form of search by going to investigate the computers of employees, to be given documents and to analyze them, possibly to make confrontations and then, a report will be drawn up and submitted. either to the HR department or to the compliance or compliance director. They are then the ones who will decide on the follow-up to be given, either by sanctioning internally if the facts do not result from a criminal offence, or by reporting to the public prosecutor’s office on the basis of article 40 of the criminal procedure code.
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At the end of this investigation, do you make any recommendations?
Absolutely. Both on the subject and very often also on the way of functioning in society. This can be both cyclical and structural. Everyone has to gain that things change and that society takes its responsibilities. We make recommendations for the short, medium and long term. If it is a change at the organizational level, we always propose to review the company a year later or six months when the situation is really very worrying. We are in the process of developing a tool, particularly in terms of violence against women, because we believe it is a subject within the subject. This requires expertise and a personalized understanding of the situation with people who will be trained within companies to collect the words of women, but also legal and psychological support in the police services.
What are the subjects that require an internal investigation?
We deal with many cases of harassment and violence, particularly sexual, with problems of aggression or behavior that is clearly not appropriate. But an internal investigation can also arise for cases of financial embezzlement, embezzlement, lack of verification of the origins of funds, anything related to money laundering.
Where is France in relation to the implementation of the internal investigation?
As always, France is never too far ahead. But it comes very quickly and the process has developed at a significant speed over the past ten years.
What do you hope for with this new government in terms of gender equality?
Above all, we are looking for resources. Beyond the organization of “Grenelle”, conferences, reports or commissions. We expect that these are not empty words and that the government really takes the measure of the situation, with more personnel and training. Mentalities must evolve as quickly as communication. We must not let go of this government.
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What can be expected from the PPDA case?
What is quite positive in this case is that they are women of all generations and there are many of them. It is therefore difficult to call them all hysterical and liars. Despite the prescription of the facts, he decided to attack and prosecute them accusing them of slanderous denunciation. Which means that there will be a trial that will necessarily turn against him since if he wants to demonstrate that they denounced in a slanderous way, he will have to demonstrate that he did not commit the facts. Which is going to be very complicated. We can expect this trial to be the place of accountability for men and especially for the world around them. When tomorrow, TF1 will have more interest to denounce a PPDA than to silence it, we will have changed era and women will be more protected.
What are the lessons to be learned from the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial that shook the United States?
This trial represents the best and worst of the United States combined. I think it is very complicated to put social networks and all of civil society in a courtroom. And this is where we understand why we do not bring the cameras into the French courts. It is very difficult for justice to pass peacefully when it is shaken by public opinion. But it’s true that it worries me, because I see it in this way of letting go of the dogs against Amber Heard by grimacing her physique and her credibility, by mocking her tears, the proof that we have never won , that we must remain vigilant because it can come back. Nothing is ever certain, and this case reminds us of that.
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